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shrap
rank 10
Posted:
Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:50 pm
quote : #1
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Posts: 132
about 40 mins into the retronauts podcast on 1up i believe tycho from penny arcade comes on and they talk about how great the dreamcast was. only listened for about ten minutes but there was some quality struff there. as soon as i get home i'm going to listen to the whole thing. you guys should check it out too.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169755
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lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:22 am
quote : #2
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I waited a bit to give others a chance to maybe reply about this before I give it the "nikon" treatment. Since nobody else has replied yet, I decided to just go ahead and post. Though instead of just hanging on the negative points only, I will also give its positives to be fair.

Notable Positives about the broadcast:

  • This broadcast is long and probobly one of the few Dreamcast specific ones that you may ever hear that goes this indepth on so many facets of the Dreamcast. So, at the very least you get to hear a bunch of people talk about your favorite console for well over an hour and a half. (Which can be entertaining or enraging depending on your state of mind - see comments later on in my post...)

  • Zombie Revenge - This game gets ragged on by a lot of people because they don't understand it is supposed to be a beatemup arcade game, and not Resident Evil. Jerry Holkins was quick to point out this point. This was good because more people need to learn to appreciate this great Sega arcade game.

  • Skies of Arcadia Barai Edition - I was very proud that they brought this up, even though I don't think they ever referred to it as its true name "Barai Edition". Barai games were full games, that had only the first part of the game available to play. The rest was locked off. They were often included in magazines, or could be purchased for a few dollars. To play the full game you signed onto the Internet and purchase an unlock key that would make the entire game available.

  • They were able to notice just how many creative titles were released on the DC and pointed this out numerous times throughout the broadcast.

  • They noted there was a creative collapse after death of Dreamcast by Sega.

  • They point out the Dreameye and the DC's connectivity with NGPC.


ok and here we go...

Notable Negatives about the broadcast:

  • While talking about Skies of Arcadia Barai Edition, they start talking nonsense about what would happen if the VMU battery dies out and the unlock key was stored in the Game Save. They were all under the impression that the Dreamcast's VMU somehow gets whiped out after its CR2032 battery dies. This was red flag number 1 for, "I am just here for nostalgia and have no damn idea what I talking about because I havn't played a Dreamcast since 2002." Of course the saves are not eliminated once the battery runs dry. You simply cannot use the VMU as a standalone device, and have to put up with an annoying beep whenever it is accessed in game.

  • Okay so they realise to some extent that the Dreamcast had large library of unique and original games. However the problem here is that they didn't come into the broadcast trying to prove this point. It was something they sort of "realised" while discussing it right there in the podcast.

  • They noted the creative collapse after the Dreamcast faded from the commmercial market. This was true, to an extent. It didn't happen right after Sega went multiplatform. Remember Sega took all of their projects currently in development, and for much of 2003 they released these games across other systems. All of those games embodied everything the Dreamcast stood for. The real creative downfall at Sega didn't happen until the corporate restructuring of the Sega Sammy merger.

  • At two points in the broadcast you hear people talking about how "they need to re-release this game so I can play it". For Zombie Revenge, and later on Shenmue. At first when I heard him bring it up for Zombie Revenge I blurted out "Just buy the fucking thing." Then they say during Shenmue that they need to re-release it because the Dreamcast is technically no longer compatible with his TV. Yea. Yet another case of people buying HDTV's rendering 95% of the game consoles ever released, including the Dreamcast, as virtually unusable on such a setup. I swear people like this should be cast out of being Dreamcast Fans. If you aren't going to find ways to still play a console like the Dreamcast, then what the hell are you doing talking about how great it is. Nostalgia is an affliction or a virus that needs to be obliterated.


And now for the bombshell quote of the entire thing. I had to type this out verbatim just so you guys could see how braindead they are:

Quote:
GUY #1: Another way that Sega kind of lined up its ducks, that we havn't even mentioned, is the NAOMI arcade hardware architecture. The arcade board that was basically a Dreamcast with extra RAM. That supposedly should have made arcade ports super easy, but all it really did was uhh create this sad little trickle of Cave and uh Goo Rev shooters, long after the system was dead. You'd have these limited Prints of Border Down and uh Over Rev or whatever it was called. There'd be like 10,000 copies of the game that would sell out immediatly, and become suddenly super valuable collectors items, but that was the Sega Dreamcast Legacy after its Death, was like this stream of super niche, super hardcore shooters that had been developed on NAOMI and therefore were like no brainer ports over to Dreamcast.

GUY #2: Didn't one just come out recently?

GUY #1: Yea, umm, I can't remember which one it was, but yea there was one that came out this year. And you know, every time one these comes out they are like "this is the last Dreamcast game".


They said: "Cave and Goo Rev shooters". WHAT?! Cave games are not released on the NAOMI. Plus they probobly couldn't even run on it due to the RAM compression schemes on the NAOMI or Dreamcast. What is a Goo Rev shooter? (cue sarcasm meter) They mean "G" Rev shooter, but making this type of pronounciation error isn't cute or excusable. It is embarrasing and makes the speaker sound like a Class A doofus.

It gets worse when in the next sentance they say "Border Down and Over Rev or whatever it was called". Over Rev? I am sorry when was that game released? I sure don't remember any game named... oh wait yea thats right, there is no shooter on the Dreamcast named Over Rev, or one that even comes close to that name. The only guess I would have is that they meant "Under" Defeat, which was developed G."Rev". They flipped Under into the word Over and added Rev to it. Do you see the cryptic dislexia I am having to use to rationalize their thought process?!

The thing that really ticked me off was when they said the NAOMI, "supposedly should have made arcade ports super easy, but all it really did was uhh create this sad little trickle of Cave and uh Goo Rev shooters".

Each of the shooters released in recent years on the Dreamcast were a unique case of circumstances. A symbiotic relationship between fans and the companies. These developers were able to directly reach their target audience across the entire world. Shooter fans all own Dreamcast's and still play them. Shooter fans still play shooters, because they are active fans of the genre! While not supporting the ability of cross region play right out of the box, imports can be played on the Dreamcast with the help of boot discs. Players all over the world were able to buy and play them with very little difficulty. ALL of the shooter development companies realised this, and knew it all along. This was one of the purest commercial videogame moments in video game history. No press releases, or commercials, or magazine spreads, or jargon chocked marketing ploys. It was the fans, and the developers working together to make NAOMI arcade ports happen on the Dreamcast for as long as they possibly could. The developers were able to keep making the games they loved to make, and we were able to play the games we love to play. This is anything but sad.

Also, I am not sure what this guy is talking about by trying to downplay the NAOMI's importance with regards to Dreamcast ports. The NAOMI was one of the most impactful arcade platforms ever. While people love to beat up on the DC as a "failiure", the NAOMI was the PS2 of the Arcade industry. It dominated. Contrary to what the person in the broadcast would lead you to believe, porting from the NAOMI to the Dreamcast was incredibly easy. This allowed over 60 NAOMI arcade games to find their way to the Dreamcast console, with many more games being ported to other game systems following Sega's decision to publish titles across multiple game consoles.

Reading stuff like this litterly makes me want to start Hulk Smashing chairs left and right. Why you say? Because these people are covering the video game industry as their PROFESSION! How is it that people with full time jobs in entirely unrelated fields, are able to know more about games than these court jesters?

They even are confused about when the last Dreamcast game was released, and think one came out this year. No. The last game to even see a commercial release was Karous in March of 2007. This was well over a year ago!

Either their ego's are so big they felt they could just wing it and get by on their random knowledge of the platform, or video game journalism is in such a state of dissrepair that proper research and fact checking is not longer a job requirement in these days of "brogging" and "flogcasting".
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mcmonkey
rank 44
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:18 am
quote : #3
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Posts: 1314
Type: PAL
These guys aren't super awesome dreamcast fans like us, theyre just games "journalists"...

Games "journalists" find it hard to source articles and news when the information is easily available. I think they might find it a bit more difficult in this sort of situation. Wink
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Mazonemayu
rank 27
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:54 am
quote : #4
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Posts: 573
mcmonkey wrote:
super awesome dreamcast fans


sounds like a club, reminds me of the über saturn gamers of years ago Laughing Laughing
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Gforce
rank 8
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:10 am
quote : #5
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Posts: 84
Type: NTSC-U/C
I'm fine with the podcast. Shit, I didn't know about half that stuff anyways.
 
Dreamcast â„¢
rank 39
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:27 pm
quote : #6
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Posts: 923
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See, that's the problem. Wink If you don't know much and listen to someone who's misinformed, but sound like they know what they're talking about, you'll go around telling all of your shmup fan friends about "goo-rev."
 
gRimGrAvY014
rank 27
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:24 pm
quote : #7
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Posts: 551
Type: NTSC-U/C
I enjoyed it either way.
 
Jimyerk2k
rank 7
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:37 pm
quote : #8
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Posts: 56
Nikon I totally agree if it's their profession they better than hell know about the DC. The Dreamcast is one of the most influential systems ever. Damn idiots. It also pissed me off when Game Informer called the Dreamcast a subpar system with few really delusional fans.
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Gforce
rank 8
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:23 pm
quote : #9
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Posts: 84
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Jimyerk2k wrote:
It also pissed me off when Game Informer called the Dreamcast a subpar system with few really delusional fans.

Really? That sounds like something some random youtube commenter would say.
 
Jimyerk2k
rank 7
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:45 pm
quote : #10
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Posts: 56
After I read that I threw that magazine away.
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gary_b
rank 37
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:48 pm
quote : #11
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Posts: 817
Type: NTSC-U/C
lordnikon wrote:
I waited a bit to give others a chance to maybe reply about this before I give it the "nikon" treatment. Since nobody else has replied yet, I decided to just go ahead and post. Though instead of just hanging on the negative points only, I will also give its positives to be fair.

i listened to the long ass podcast and was tired after sitting through it all. so i didn't feel like commenting on it right afterwords.

i did catch the VMU mistake they made and some other little annoyances. but i didn't mind them messing a bunch of stuff up. i do feel these people should have had more knowledge of the Dreamcast, after all they are suppose to be professionals. i guess i went into the podcast with low expectations.

i did like the part about the guy and his friends playing football online. it made me laugh.
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mcmonkey
rank 44
Posted:
Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:22 pm
quote : #12
profile : pm
Posts: 1314
Type: PAL
im gunna be on a friends podcast tomorrow, watch as I steer the thing into being about the dreamcast... Mr. Green
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Christuserloeser
rank 9
Posted:
Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:58 am
quote : #13
profile : pm
Posts: 103
lordnikon wrote:
I waited a bit to give others a chance to maybe reply about this before I give it the "nikon" treatment. Since nobody else has replied yet, I decided to just go ahead and post.


The points you've made are all very valid and I appreciate you taking the time to post them.

However, like I posted at Dreamcast-Scene.com I strongly disagree with your statement in regards to HDTVs rendering Dreamcast "virtually unusable". - It is not correct. Via VGA / DVI-A, you can not only play Dreamcast on such a setup, but you can do that in RGBHV with twice the frame rate and twice the vertical resolution than on a regular SDTV. Unlike with any other retro machine there is no deinterlacing required, only upscaling to the LCD's native resolution. The lag many people seem so obsessed about is not noticable - at least on a modern LCD using a recent chipset. I highly doubt that anyone could possibly prefer composite or S-Video over VGA, except maybe if one would enjoy a fuzzy, washed out, wrong colored, flickering picture, perhaps for nostalgic reasons.
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lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:39 pm
quote : #14
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Posts: 5902
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Christuserloeser wrote:
However, like I posted at Dreamcast-Scene.com I strongly disagree with your statement in regards to HDTVs rendering Dreamcast "virtually unusable". - It is not correct. Via VGA / DVI-A, you can not only play Dreamcast on such a setup, but you can do that in RGBHV with twice the frame rate and twice the vertical resolution than on a regular SDTV. Unlike with any other retro machine there is no deinterlacing required, only upscaling to the LCD's native resolution. The lag many people seem so obsessed about is not noticable - at least on a modern LCD using a recent chipset. I highly doubt that anyone could possibly prefer composite or S-Video over VGA, except maybe if one would enjoy a fuzzy, washed out, wrong colored, flickering picture, perhaps for nostalgic reasons.

Yea lets save this for another thread. For right now I want to keep the HD debate discussions to a minimum. I plan to create a new guide about this soon, and then create a topic for feedback where people can post information and such. Then we can focus all of the discussions in a single location, where a decent resource of information exists as a starting off point.

---

Also, thanks for posting my comments around about this podcast Christuserloeser. I really felt these were points that people needed to be notified of. When I see such ignorance in the mainstream gaming press it really gets under my skin. These people are speaking to millions and it warps the audiences perception of a console such as the Dreamcast. It was nice to see my thoughts on the matter spread around a bit so people who don't regularly read OC's forums could gain some perspective on the podcast. Smile

Last edited by lordnikon on Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Christuserloeser
rank 9
Posted:
Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:18 am
quote : #15
profile : pm
Posts: 103
You're very welcome. I got a few comments on doing newsposts as long as that one, but I felt your points were very valid and needed to be addressed.


lordnikon wrote:
Yea lets save this for another thread. For right now I want to keep the HD debate discussions to a minimum. I plan to create a new guide about this soon, and then create a topic for feedback where people can post information and such. Then we can focus all of the discussions in a single location, where a decent resource of information exists as a starting off point.


That's a good idea. I never really got around to sit down and write about my experiences with Dreamcast on HD, and this seems like a good opportunity Smile
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