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SEGA RPG FAN
rank 20
Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:43 am
quote : #46
profile : pm
Posts: 392
Type: NTSC-U/C
lordnikon wrote:
Users expect OC to be a service with certain obligations to its community base.


I think you hit that right on. I see that expectation to be the major source of frustration for members and, I'll admit, for me at times. People want to have a say in what direction the site goes because, ultimately, I think they care quite a bit about whether the community is active and engaged well into the future. A "take it or leave it" feeling can be off-putting.
  _________________
PSO:
Erisi HUnewearl
Eda FOmarl
Official Servers: (formerly) Nawara'ven
alienfrontoffline
rank 6
Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:56 pm
quote : #47
profile : pm
Posts: 48
This site does a lot to kill the community in my opinion. For example, the PSO restricted thing... there are probably fewer than 100 people still left playing PSO on dreamcast. I'd say fewer than 50 even. The recent merger of the DC-Talk, PSO Palace, and Sylverant server has brought together a number of communities, and the new legit checker can ensure that legit play happens.

The way that this site locks out members for a specific time limit is only serving to kill the community. Why not merge the OC ship with the sylverant ship, and bring all the players together? I was in a lobby the other day and there were 10 people in it, completely unscheduled and about 6 were on dreamast. The tyrannical manner in which this site is operates only serves to weaken this already small community. I know it doesn't belong to me, but I love to play dreamcast and I'd like to meet others who still do too, and oftentimes this site hinders that, not helps it.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:26 pm
quote : #48
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
alienfrontoffline wrote:
This site does a lot to kill the community in my opinion. For example, the PSO restricted thing...

OC PSO does not restrict anything.

You gain access to OC PSO and are required to create a new character to play within OC PSO only. Any characters created and used on OC servers must be played within the environment of OC PSO. However, user who do have OC PSO access are more than free to go take any other character they have, and take them onto servers at other PSO communities.

Server software for PSO is available in a variety of flavors for anyone to use. Anyone in the Dreamcast online community should be able to host and play PSO as they see fit. OC PSO is just another place to play Phantasy Star Online. Since other communities obviously exist to play PSO, there should be no reason why an individual community like OC can't try something different.

alienfrontoffline wrote:
The tyrannical manner in which this site is operates only serves to weaken this already small community.

Instead of just making a blanket statement like this, is there anything that hasn't already been brought up in the letter or the thread discussion that you would like to address? Many questions have already been answered, but if there is anything new, feel free to bring it up. I would be happy to supply any insight or extra information to help yourself as well as others gain some perspective.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
alienfrontoffline
rank 6
Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:54 pm
quote : #49
profile : pm
Posts: 48
Well the fact that this thread exists proves me wrong, as well as your response to my comment. In the past, discussion on this site was strictly stifled, and I don't believe that to be the case anymore so I'm not going to try to explain it and dredge up old arguments when things have changed. Thanks for running a great site, although I have slight disagreements at this point I can tolerate the way you run things. You've done a lot more for the DC community than me to be honest, so I really shouldn't have said anything.

Out of curiosity, how often do people play on the OC PSO server? The prospect of starting an entirely new character is daunting, as I've been working on my main character for something like 8 years now.
 
mcmonkey
rank 44
Posted:
Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:08 pm
quote : #50
profile : pm
Posts: 1314
Type: PAL
alienfrontoffline wrote:
Out of curiosity, how often do people play on the OC PSO server? The prospect of starting an entirely new character is daunting, as I've been working on my main character for something like 8 years now.


There is activity. It may not be walk in and get a game activity, but if you organise before hand, you will get a game. Smile
  _________________
Pretty music wot i has made:
http://grandcanonicalensemble.bandcamp.com/
TheMytho
rank 28
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:17 am
quote : #51
profile : pm
Posts: 587
Type: NTSC-U/C
alienfrontoffline wrote:
Out of curiosity, how often do people play on the OC PSO server? The prospect of starting an entirely new character is daunting, as I've been working on my main character for something like 8 years now.


As mcmonkey said, there is activity on both the PSO forum and in the actual game here at OC. Granted, you can't simply sign on and expect people to play. It is unrealistic to expect that for a nearly 10 year old game on a niche platform. Simply connecting to Dreamcast online games today requires a level of dedication and commitment that many see as a deterrent.

You will likely run into the same situation in every Dreamcast PSO community at this point. Even if you do find a community that has consistent play, they are likely incorporating multiple platforms, such as the PC and GameCube, in what should be a Dreamcast specific environment. One Dreamcast online community in particular even encourages people to just play on the PC and/or Gamecube should setting up a Dreamcast for online connectivity prove too difficult. What exactly is the point in running a Dreamcast Online community then if you allow this? You might as well just run a general PSO community in that case.

However, as the old saying goes, if you build it (or, in this case, schedule it), they will come. The last scheduled game I know of took place on the first of January. I managed to play with two other members, in addition to a third and myself, later that night. This was on New Year's Day too, which wasn't the most convenient time to play.

Many of us playing have both a high level character and a different low level character for those new to the OC server. There is simply no reason to be dissuaded from making a new character for the OC servers. We are willing to forgo playing with our level 100+ character(s) so that the new player can have an enjoyable time participating.
 
Kbuzz
rank 23
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:39 am
quote : #52
profile : pm
Posts: 473
Type: NTSC-U/C
A commitment to civility is what makes a good community in my books. If you've spent enough time on gaming forums, you begin to notice how a few degenerates will turn the whole place into a shit show of poor etiquette free for all of mean spirited behaviour with no direction or hope to evolve as a community.

Since this thread is so full of hilarious analogies, I'll say that OC is like a Gated Gaming Community. The PSO Yatch Club. The Quake 3 champagne lounge, Starlancer with Bar Dancers.

In short not all are invited to the party.
  _________________
Pso: Kingbuzzo lvl 80
QUake 3: [OC] Kingbuzzo
TeamXlink
rank 8
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:06 pm
quote : #53
profile : pm
Posts: 78
Type: NTSC-U/C
There are users at other Dreamcast communities that play PSO that value legitimate play and will NOT play with certain people that they know aren't legit, there are also ones that won't even trade at all because they value legitimate play and don't want to take the chance of receiving a non legitimate item.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:42 pm
quote : #54
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
I want to try and avoid this thread getting eaten alive by a debate over how people play on various PSO servers.

The true root of the matter is that, even if there was a server out there that was 100% confirmed legit with zero possibility of hacks, OnlineConsoles and any other website should still have the right to run a private locked off isolated server for PSO or any other game for that matter if these see fit to do so.

Any of the software released at OF Project is done so for that very reason. We released the TribesAA master list so that if another community wanted to, they could go and run their own totally seperate independent Master List. With the source code provided they could modify that however they wanted under the GNU license.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
alienfrontoffline
rank 6
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:46 pm
quote : #55
profile : pm
Posts: 48
What is the point of splitting up an already tiny community? For the past week, I've been able to logon to sylverant and find a game, immediately. I can check the server status on the sylverant site, see a game is running, and hop on and start playing. I've done it multiple times this week. If the small community that plays on the OC PSO server were also merged, it would be a lot more like the old days when you didn't have to schedule a game days in advance and then HOPE people showed up.

Of course you have the right to run your own private little PSO server. It just doesn't make sense in such a tiny community. The independent ships on Sylverant still get their own rights to control, and the legit checker works wonderfully. There really aren't that many people who cheat at PSO left anymore, pretty much everyone that still plays is legit. The cheaters have gotten bored and moved on.

I know you guys are going to continue with your own little private server, because you like the exclusivity and control. I personally value openness and a larger player base more than your screening process. I've played 5 or 6 times since the 1st, for the most part unscheduled.

Enough about PSO. I'm just going to invite the people that play on the OC server to get the autoconnect disc and give the sylverant server a try. According to the server status, there are two people playing right now. I'm going to hop on and join them.
 
mcmonkey
rank 44
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:03 pm
quote : #56
profile : pm
Posts: 1314
Type: PAL
alienfrontoffline wrote:
it would be a lot more like the old days when you didn't have to schedule a game days in advance and then HOPE people showed up.


When the PAL servers were nearing the end of their life span, you had to organise to get a game. There were times when there were people online, just pissing about, but not often. Things haven't changed that much since then.

alienfrontoffline wrote:
I know you guys are going to continue with your own little private server, because you like the exclusivity and control. I personally value openness and a larger player base more than your screening process.


It's not the exclusivity/control, it's being able to trust everyone you can play with.
  _________________
Pretty music wot i has made:
http://grandcanonicalensemble.bandcamp.com/
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:35 pm
quote : #57
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
alienfrontoffline wrote:
What is the point of splitting up an already tiny community?

I have been studying online multiplayer games, and how to reverse the effects of community deterioration for as long as this site has been running. In-fact technically longer since I started creating online communities for the first time in 1999. The pattern is always the same. Time passes, interest erodes, and gradually the player base becomes smaller, and smaller, and smaller. As of yet I havn't seen examples of centralized isolated playing environments saving or sustaining an online community. In-fact, all games start out like this with massive support from publishers and marketing forces pushing products down consumers throats. There is an explosion of interest with thousands of online players all playing in 1 location, but then a gradual decline begins, eventually falling down into nothingness.

It is possible to create bursts of activity, but the experience is a lot like trying to keep a tire inflated that has a hole in it. Eventually you get the same results that have been proven time and time again on every online game that has ever existed.

I am trying to tackle the problem of sustainability. Consistant long term sustainability. For PSO specifically, the strategies I am using to accomplish this goal do not currently involve blindly merging server environments with other communities. It would threaten to shake the foundation of the current PSO community we have worked so hard to mold.

You are consistantly using negative terminology like: "tyrannical, kill, splitting up, exclusivity, and control". Our intentions are in complete opposition to this, and have been stated numerious times throughout the letter and this thread.

Did you read this part in the letter regarding PSO Access?
    Eventually it is my goal to open things up more, but I am trying to think of ways to do that without sacrificing what we have built so far and are continuing to evolve. So if it helps, think of it as a "community beta environment". -lordnikon
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:40 pm
quote : #58
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
I think this thread has by and large served its purpose. Thanks all for those who replied, and stay tuned for what should be a very interesting 2011 in Dreamcast Online gaming.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
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