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Topic: SNAP Server Emulation

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petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:24 am
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Hi,

I just stumbled across a guy that has seen some success in emulating the SNAP server for RE:Outbreak on the PS2.

http://obsrv.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2059

I dont know if/how these servers are in any way the same as some of the SNAP servers for the Dreamcast, but it shows that there may indeed be hope.
 
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:56 am
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The first course of action really is to rebuild a publically released binary for the server based off of what is currently up to have RE Outbreak online forever and not shackled to a single maintainer. Right now REO is in the same position it was in when Sony/Capcom ran things. It can get terminated and lost again someday without a publically available server binary.

As far as the Dreamcast, meticulious knowledge would be needed about how any SNAP infrastructure works in order to get anything working for the DC, and your reverse engineering chops would have to be seriously good. No packet logs exist for any DC SNAP game.
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petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:44 am
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Lordnikon, have you tried contacting him regarding his efforts on the SNAP servers? I think all snap games used the same layout of infrascrture and probably alot is common between the titles.
 
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:35 pm
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petterk wrote:
Lordnikon, have you tried contacting him regarding his efforts on the SNAP servers?

It has been exhausting over the years trying to explain my position on online game server preservation, and why it should be released to the community. I am in a tougher position because I administrate a community focused around online games. So people immediatly assume I am requesting they release the software for my own interests. I have even thought of shutting down OC at one point to eliminate this conflict of interest in order to make a stronger case to those who emulate online servers.

In the end people are either going to release their software (sometimes as open source) because its something they believe in, or they are going to hoard it and keep it bottled up forever. I have not talked to the maintainers of obsrv, so I can't speak for their intentions. I guess I am a bit defeated on the whole topic. If people put a server back up for an online game, thats great for people who want to temporarily use it while its available. For me however, these servers are not something I want to support or get involved with.

All of Dreamcast Online could come back, and I would not care unless the server binaries were made available.

petterk wrote:
I think all snap games used the same layout of infrascrture and probably alot is common between the titles.


Based on what technical information?
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petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:31 am
quote : #5
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I understand and I didnt mean it that way. All I was asking was if you had talked to them, since you mentioned that they had not released their software to the public.


Anyway,

I have talked to some of the people who have worked on SNAP at both sega and nokia and they have explained to me (kind of) in simple terms as to how they worked (as a software router).
 
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:24 am
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Its cool no worries. Smile Sorry for the extra info. I guess I have been involved with this for so long, I have "baggage".

SNAP is a framework, which means it does have similarities across implementations. However this would be no different than say how OC is built off phpBB, or how applications might use backbone (js), symfony (php), etc. The fact that games across platforms might have used snap makes the situation easier, but not necessarily easy.
  _________________
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petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:59 pm
quote : #7
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I agree and I am very aware of your efforts, and they are very appreciated Smile

It is to my understanding that you wish to play and enjoy Dreamcast games more so than working countless hours on getting games back online, and I totally understand that.

I have been following everyones efforts in trying to get games back online for atleast 10 years now and I figured I'd give this one final try for real and if nothing comes of it, Im just going to leave it be, but right now theres alteast some light at the end of the tunnel for a couple of games, so Im going to give this a final go for the next weeks.

I have sent emails to probably 100 names found at the credits of online games, and gotten some responses.

At the moment, the most likely games to ever be back online is Unreal Tournament (as Josh is looking for the source code/server code), Worms World Party (I actually think this will get online, just need to get my modem setup right) and Toy Racer.

I also have one lead on Ooga Booga, with the help of a network programmer from the development team, but most of the reponses I get on any SNAP game is the licensing issue, as the technology is sold.

Just thought I'd give a little update..

And for everyone else who might give it a try some time - try to get ahold of the source code or the server executables themselves. Trying to reverse engineer any server without packet logs is almost impossible, and requires tons of hours, dedication and skills.
 
petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:32 am
quote : #8
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Gotten a bit more information regarding snap.

Man I've been trying to remember this..

So if memory serves correctly they used a proprietary in-house protocol called RUDP (Reliable UDP). When you initially connect to a game you talk to the bootstrap server. Once you've gone through the connection process you were assigned to one one of the cluster nodes. In some games these equated to 'worlds' but not always. It was highly dependent on the game design.

You might be able to glean something from an old JDK addition:

"This release of the Sun Java Wireless Toolkit includes Nokia's Scalable Network Application Package (SNAP) Mobile API and the SNAP Mobile Sample Application as part of the toolkit's External API feature. SNAP Mobile is a combination of client software and server infrastructure that supports the creation of networked, community-enabled multiplayer games. For more information, consult the SNAP Mobile web site at http://www.forum.nokia.com/snapmobile. The Emulation Environment, development resources and support for SNAP Mobile are available from http://www.forum.nokia.com/games/snapmobile. Please see SNAP Mobile Emulation Environment Installation for further information."

This was effectively a 'proxy' for the gaming platform over http.


Hope that helps.

I've been looking through the SnapMobile sample provided in the WTK, but the Emulation Environment is not included, only the sample source and buildfiles from the client and server apps.(java)

I think the guys at OBSRV got a hold of sm-emu.jar which is the emulation server used for testing applications before connecting to the "real" Snap servers at Nokia. I searched around but cant find it. Im betting we could contact the OBSRV guys and have them send it though. Perhaps we could try to emulate the bootstrap server and try to get for example Outtrigger to connect.
 
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:12 pm
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petterk: I had archived as much as I could from Nokia website for SNAP developers back in 2010.

SDK 1.2.0 through 2.1.0, along with documentation (Advanced and Basic). It was publically available at the time, but may not be currently.

Let me know if you want this and I can throw it up for download.
  _________________
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petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:52 am
quote : #10
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Type: PAL
Perfect!
 
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:08 pm
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Below is a link to an archive I made of publically available SNAP Mobile Documentation and SDK's from Nokia in June of 2010. This is not the same Sega SNAP that was used on the Dreamcast, but the modified mobile version of SNAP that was acquired by Nokia from Sega when they bought the SegaSoft division.

http://cdn.onlineconsoles.com/files/SNAP_Mobile_SDK_Archive.7z

A simple request to all in situations like this: In the future, please try to be a bit more patient with me.

I was asked if I was able to "upload the file yet" 14 times from 3 different members on 2 different communication mediums. That's 1 message every 3.3 days.

Remember, while I was archiving these SNAP files in 2010, there was probobly some task at the time that was delayed in order to archive these files.

I am constantly juggling and prioritizing Archival projects just like this one against all of the other stuff I have going on to ensure the data gets salvaged. (I also was sick for 2 weeks last month. It is Winter, and these things happen.) This file would have gone up online today even if nobody had asked me further. I put these tasks in a todo list, and they eventually do get done. If time passes, its because other tasks may be of greater priority. If I don't take the projects of higher priority, the data won't be salvaged. Its as simple as that.

Anyways, I am here to work together. I am still here after over 11 years. Ask me questions, request my help, look for my input, and feel free to continue to ask me to play games online with you, and I will do the best I can in every regard.

For those interested, check out the SNAP Mobile files and docs above. Smile
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
petterk
rank 9
Posted:
Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:46 am
quote : #12
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Posts: 116
Type: PAL
Thanks alot LordNikon! Much appreciated!!
  _________________
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