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Topic: UT Command Console?

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Morph
unknown
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:18 pm
quote : #1
profile : pm
Posts: 299
I was messing with UT not too long ago, then began to wonder "hey, I betcha theres a bunch of cool debugging information in it, and even and FPS counter".

However, after much fiddling (hold tab or w/e when talk is open), I only got it to add random bots. What I wanted was an FPS counter. Can anyone help me there?

The biggest reason for this is I want a game that taxe the system, then overclock it, and see how much extra performance I got out of it.
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lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:02 pm
quote : #2
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Posts: 5889
Type: NTSC-U/C
Hey Morph, check this guide I created. It should be perfect to help see how well an overclock affects UT. Also it will help you get better mileage out of UT without even having to overclock Smile

http://dreamcast.onlineconsoles.com/phpBB2/guides_ut_performance.php

(This is original research by myself, and was not pulled from any other source.)
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
Morph
unknown
Posted:
Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:16 pm
quote : #3
profile : pm
Posts: 299
Ok, thanks, that helps. I am doing a project based on what exactly overclocking can do for a Dreamcast. I know also that adding bots will also make the framerate die painfully. I am seeking hardware intensive pieces to test (namely with FPS counters).

One game I wanted to try was DC Half-Life, but cannot find the FPS command. That game lags just opening the menu.

What I need to do now is FINISH my internal VGA mod. Once that is done, I'll be using mine more again, side by side with my PC.

[NOTE: now to do Morpheus and Outskirts with 20 bots on my test. muaahahhaha]

Nikon, I forgot to ask, does it have a framerate cap that you know of? Or does it just go as high as it can and hang around?
  _________________
Server: Morris
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lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:25 pm
quote : #4
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Posts: 5889
Type: NTSC-U/C
Well, I havn't seen it lock to a specific cap. I would assume 60fps, but I have never seen it get that high so I can't say for sure. I have seen it get over 50, with no bots, and using the sniper zoom to drop the weapon from the screen.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
MasterChief
rank 25
Posted:
Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:49 pm
quote : #5
profile : pm
Posts: 516
definitely keep us apprised Morph, this sounds real interesting.

a smoother UT is the perfect excuse i need to do some overclock work myself. after all, i tracked down a "water cooled" DC for exactly this!
  _________________
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

Now Playing: PS3 - Brutal Legend, 360 - Red Dead Redemption, Wii - MadWorld, DC - Dux
Douggie
rank 7
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:30 am
quote : #6
profile : pm
Posts: 54
oooh, sorry to sound like an over-excited child, but how do you add bots to games using the command console!? And how many can you add?

Sorry, I just love making consoles do things they shouldn't. It would be awesome if you could tell me!
 
Morph
unknown
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:59 am
quote : #7
profile : pm
Posts: 299
MasterChief wrote:
definitely keep us apprised Morph, this sounds real interesting.

a smoother UT is the perfect excuse i need to do some overclock work myself. after all, i tracked down a "water cooled" DC for exactly this!


I am betting you are referring to a revision 0 heat-pipe Dreamcast. The cooling system is indeed superior, but the compunents on those revision 0's are generally not all the great for overclocking. My suggestion (which is what I did), it take the heat pipe cooler from the Revision 0, and put it in a Revision 1 Dreamcast. Not only will you have newer components (newer stepping SH4 for one), but you will have the heat pipe cooler.

If you just use a revision 0, don't expect to get higher than 250Mhz. That is highly uncommon, where as a revision 1 will reach 270 easy.

Douggie wrote:
oooh, sorry to sound like an over-excited child, but how do you add bots to games using the command console!? And how many can you add?

Sorry, I just love making consoles do things they shouldn't. It would be awesome if you could tell me!


Last time I tested, I used console commands from gamewinners, i literally added 10 bots, and the game started lagging all to hell. My suggestion is checking there, as I do not believe there is a true bot-cap if you add via console.


I am also still trying to create the worlds first 300Mhz Dreamcast, but I am still purchasing the components. After my custom GD-Rom cable broke, I have been looking a low voltage peltier cooling, so I do not have to move the GD-Rom
  _________________
Server: Morris
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lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:41 pm
quote : #8
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Posts: 5889
Type: NTSC-U/C
Douggie, I don't recommend adding bots. There is a simple command you can do, but it adds bots with INHUMAN difficulty level. There is a much longer drawn out way to add more bots at an easier difficutly level, but it involves entering all of the map parameters into one huge string.

I always stay at 4 players total. Me and 3 other bots. I keep it at 4 all the time, to match Q3's number. It keeps UT's framerate running decent on most maps, and it is enough players to keep the action going.

Sometimes I do 4 bots for deathmatch, but just in certain maps. All team games I have 2 on 2.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
Douggie
rank 7
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:17 pm
quote : #9
profile : pm
Posts: 54
Very Happy

Inhuman is no match for me! I found the command somewhere, and i was playing a 49-bot CTF match on Sepulchre, I couldn't resist completely overdoing it. I got 3-7 fps. However, I played with 15 bots on Deck 16 and got between 15-25 fps, I found it quite playable after playing the Gizmondo version of Quake with bots! Anyway, i'm gonna test all the maps and see how many bots you can put in the best maps on your list without the framerate going below 25fps. I'm all excited now!!!

Oh, and i'm going to take this opportunity to thank you for all the work you've done for the online communnity on the Dreamcast over the past few years. Thank you very much!
 
Morph
unknown
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:19 pm
quote : #10
profile : pm
Posts: 299
Edited for irrelevance.

Also, I would appreciate assistance with my project. If you can set certain maps with a specific number of bots, and tell me the framerate, I can replicate it easily while overclocked.

Nikon, is there any way to go into spectator mode and stay there? You know, by default (observer mode would be greeeaaaaat).

Last edited by Morph on Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
  _________________
Server: Morris
Status: Under Maintenence
CPU: Pentium Pro 233Mhz
RAM: 128MB PC66 EDO
Video: MGA MIL/2GN 4MB PCI
Hard Disks: dual 4.3GB W.D.
OS: Windows 2000 Professional
MasterChief
rank 25
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:21 pm
quote : #11
profile : pm
Posts: 516
Morph wrote:
I am betting you are referring to a revision 0 heat-pipe Dreamcast. The cooling system is indeed superior, but the compunents on those revision 0's are generally not all the great for overclocking. My suggestion (which is what I did), it take the heat pipe cooler from the Revision 0, and put it in a Revision 1 Dreamcast. Not only will you have newer components (newer stepping SH4 for one), but you will have the heat pipe cooler.

If you just use a revision 0, don't expect to get higher than 250Mhz. That is highly uncommon, where as a revision 1 will reach 270 easy.


that was exactly what i was thinking, i just wasnt sure if the revision renderd the heatpiping unusable.


btw what are you clocking? the cpu or gpu? and what levels of success have you achived up until now? ive read about some of your projects on DCemulaion but there split up into so many threads its hard to follow.
  _________________
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

Now Playing: PS3 - Brutal Legend, 360 - Red Dead Redemption, Wii - MadWorld, DC - Dux
Morph
unknown
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:33 pm
quote : #12
profile : pm
Posts: 299
When you overclock the Dreamcast, you are overclocking everything. You are altering the FSB (front side bus), which is the speed the entire system runs at.

Normally, the PLL signal associated wth the system speed is 33Mhz, which is multiplied externally by 3, to make 100Mhz. The CPU in turn, multiplies that by 2, to get 200Mhz. The RAM and GPU/Jesus-Chip do not multiplay it further, thereby keeping those at 100Mhz.

Therefore, if you sub in, say, a 40Mhz clock signal (considered a standard overclock), it multiplies by 3, and the FSB is 120Mhz. The CPU now runs at 240Mhz, the RAM at 120Mhz, and the GPU/Jesus-Chip also at 120Mhz. If you subbed in a 45Mhz clock signal, it would make 133Mhz FSB, and thus 270/135/135 respectively. Due to the fact you are cranking up the speed of the FSB, and not just the CPU or RAM etc, you actually get far more performance than just the overclock. Lets say you get a 20% overclock of the original speed, you will actually see better performance by about 30-40%

270 generally seems like the limit, for unknown reasons. Some speculate the RAM cannot go faster, others suggest that the GPU is maxed out. However, it is my theory that it is voltage related. Think about it, if your typical processor were overclocked anywheres near 50% of its original speed, would it not need more voltage? Current theory places that the SH4 overclocks so well now because its voltage is already beyond spec (theorized by fellow forumers use of a multimeter on a certain spot on the mainboard). Instead of the default 1.8v the SH4 is supposed to be fed on, it seems to get 2.0v. I and others have speculated that a simple pencil trick may give the voltage to hit 300.

Again, that is speculation. The first 2 paragraphs and the first 2 sentences of the last paragraph, are all apparently true and factual. Anything else take as pure assumption. It does however address a few questions to how the DC overclocks so well.
  _________________
Server: Morris
Status: Under Maintenence
CPU: Pentium Pro 233Mhz
RAM: 128MB PC66 EDO
Video: MGA MIL/2GN 4MB PCI
Hard Disks: dual 4.3GB W.D.
OS: Windows 2000 Professional
MasterChief
rank 25
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:55 pm
quote : #13
profile : pm
Posts: 516
thanks for the info.

but how about giving us a rundown of what you have done in terms of overclocking and what success youve had.
  _________________
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

Now Playing: PS3 - Brutal Legend, 360 - Red Dead Redemption, Wii - MadWorld, DC - Dux
Morph
unknown
Posted:
Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:25 pm
quote : #14
profile : pm
Posts: 299
Well, I have done 240Mhz and 270Mhz. Again, 240Mhz is a rather simple overclock that is considerd standard. Even some Revision 2 Dreamcasts can hit 240Mhz, and we all know the story of those. I have also done 270Mhz, and even without FPS counter, Unreal Tournament 4-player and Half-Life are lagless, and for anyone who has played DC Half-Life, they know exactly the benefits right there.

I basically made a jumper box to switch up the clock signals. I have yet to procure a 50Mhz crystal oscillator, or a 4B pencil necessarry for the voltage mod, but the box contains a 40Mhz C.O., and a 45Mhz C.O. Both work flawlessly, abeit some random minor save game glitches (won't read VMU, but only rarely). Again, like I stated, i use a heat-pipe cooler, but with one addition. It also has a high pressure CPU fan (pulled from an old Athlon Cooler) on the opposite side of the DC, like that one guys mod, and pushes air in. With the fan off, the heat-pipe gets a little toasty, but with the fan, it stays nice and cool(er).

I also am using larger thermal pads than the default ones. These cover all of the CPU and GPU respectively. I am also planning on adding some small ramsinks and maybe a fan blowing onto them, as even at 270, they get fairly hot, and I do not wish to risk them at 300Mhz without a better cooling solution.


Good summary, yes?

If you desire to overclock, I suggest getting a 40Mhz crystal oscillator, and shooting for 240, as that is the utmost easiest and reliable. However, if you get the need for speed, try 270. I would not suggest going higher as, of course, there is a risk of damaging your Dreamcast, and at thos speeds, it is already churning out about 50-60% more heat. 240 only does about 20-30%, so it generally is the best solution, even without mondo cooling, and you do not need a heat-pipe for 240Mhz

I got tons of extra 40's and 45's, I bought them in bulk.


[Edit:] Here is an example of the performance % exponential growth. Your typical Dreamcast utilizes a standard PC memory bus, abiet SDR. 64bit bus / 8 = bytes. 8x100=800, therefore a typical Dreamcast transfers data to and from memory to all its little places at about 800Mb/s. When you overclock a Dreamcast, you are not only boosing the memory speeds, but you are also boosting the total transfer rate. Lets say you have overclocked to ~270Mhz. 8x133=1064, which equals over 1GB of data can be moved thru the bus per second. Compare 800Mb with 1GB, thats a whole lot more data throughput on the memory bus!

This in turn, allows normally memory bandwidth starved CPU's and GPU's get what they need. So now you aren'y only overclocking the RAM, increasing its total throughput, and overclocking the CPU and GPU, you are relieving possible bottlenecks in the system, therefore allowing for even smoother operation.



Sorry about the long post, I felt like explaining more ^^
  _________________
Server: Morris
Status: Under Maintenence
CPU: Pentium Pro 233Mhz
RAM: 128MB PC66 EDO
Video: MGA MIL/2GN 4MB PCI
Hard Disks: dual 4.3GB W.D.
OS: Windows 2000 Professional
MasterChief
rank 25
Posted:
Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:31 am
quote : #15
profile : pm
Posts: 516
Morph wrote:
Good summary, yes?


yes, very good. exactly what i was looking for. im gonna try to go with a 270 clock, cause like my momma always said "go big or go home!"

my plan is to keep it air cooled as much as possable. i only have two heatpipe DCs, one is japanese and the other is a kiosk unit, so im having second thoughts hacking them up. im gonna use your tip on larger thermal pads and im going to add a second fan.

annother concern i have though is the saving issue. ive read somewhere that a stock vmu would not work under OCed conditions, but certain aftermarket ones do. what do you use?

also do ALL games youve tried work? ill tell you though, if only UT and halflife worked that would be reason alone to do it.

thanks for all your help morph.
  _________________
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

Now Playing: PS3 - Brutal Legend, 360 - Red Dead Redemption, Wii - MadWorld, DC - Dux
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