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Favrenation
rank 9
Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:40 pm
quote : #16
profile : pm
Posts: 106
Type: NTSC-U/C
I think having an offtopic section to the site would be a great addition here. I too know many former memebers of this site who have resented the strict policies here. I also understand where you're coming from too but there are too ends of the spectrum. Being too offtopic makes a forum cluttered and un-organized but being too strict makes people mad that posts change and many things being censored. Either way I don't care for myself but maybe it might be best for this forum to add it.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:53 pm
quote : #17
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
OC already had an offtopic forum durings its first few years on the web. It was removed because myself and a few others were essentially competing with our own community to generate active discussions for Dreamcast Online.

I'll bring up an extreme example that justifies this line of thought: What would happen if we had offtopic forums? The GameCube online site wouldn't be a gamecube online site at all. It would be a Wii & Nintendo DS online website inside the shell of a gamecube online site. Me sitting around going "hey guys I finally finished the Homeland guide come play" can't compete with the flood of network ready games for the Wii/DS.

Even look at PSO for instance. The schthack servers have a ton of players... they are all playing Blue Burst. Why?

1. Its easier. PC games can be installed as people's technology evolves, and are thus more readily accessible.
2. Thats where the bulk of the players are.

People tend to choose the path of least resistance. Remember, online gaming is very much about feeding a need for social interaction. Some people just want to be where the activity is, regardless of the platform or location.

Its cool if people want to talk about other consoles, or politics, or what they ate for lunch; but there are a million message boards out there already providing an outlet for just such topics.

Sure, creating an offtopic forum would generate activity. It would also definatly generate some trickle over activity into other boards. However the large majority of the activity generated by having an offtopic forum is to talk about offtopic subject matter, and the amount of trickle over is very small. OC was at a peak level of activity when the offtopic board was taken down. After a few weeks of it being down, the level of activity increased in almost every online related forum across the board.

Currently things are slowing down for a variety of reasons. New consoles coming out, people having families, people moving on in life, and the fact that some might not have the same passion for video games that they used to. Its a challenge keeping a website active that focuses on a very specific subject matter. I don't want to just give up and throw in the towel yet. You have to persevere and stick to your guns. There is still work to do, and I am confident that the GameCube website for instance can be turned around into a thriving little community.

As a side note, there has been a slightly offtopic message board at each site that has existed for a few years now. Only certain longtime members were permitted access to it, and for various reasons the forum has remained hidden and private. However, those reasons no longer apply, and soon they will be made public. So some of you who have never seen these boards before will be able to utilize them soon. They aren't really offtopic per say but rather "lineage based" forums if you will, at each area of the site. As soon as I get the headers redone at the larger header size I will be making this open to the public.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
Favrenation
rank 9
Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:26 pm
quote : #18
profile : pm
Posts: 106
Type: NTSC-U/C
Good point. I never thought of it like that. At least you tried to have an off-topic section. I fully understand the reasoning behind this now. Thank you.
 
grubensau
rank 40
Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:08 am
quote : #19
profile : pm
Posts: 974
There is simple no reason for that kind of letter. Onlineconsoles is your baby and your work and it wouldnt be onlineconsoles without ''some'' of ''your'' rules. It took me a while and some admin notices 2 check your way 2 lead this community. I dont agre with all you've said in discussions over the years and sometimes I was realy ''yellow color'' when I noticed how strictly you forced your goal - creating a flame free nonstupid place for dudes who likes 2 play the dc ps2 gc online.

Anyway - like I said before - OC is an one man show - so its simple normal that haters call your name first in combination with OC. There were and ll ever be a small group of ppl which cant accept the rules here - thats normal 2. So dont worry but - Your new pro-active moderation is welcome Cool - this were my 50 cents.

And this are the facts:
Only 44 people have ever been banned from OC across the entire site (not just the DC site, but all 3 sites). Of the 3,400 registered users across the site, this comprises only 1.3% of the entire community. This means 98.7% of the member accounts are still intact and working since the day they were created.
  _________________
for sale: limited edt. shikigami no shiro II sealed new incl. pre-order bonus (ebay)
jjc5150
rank 11
Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:56 pm
quote : #20
profile : pm
Posts: 159
Type: NTSC-U/C
In the last few years that I have been a member of this community, I can honestly say that it has been a great experience. I have met people from all over the world who all have the same interests as myself, and for the most part are here because they love this game system and this site. And first and foremost thats whats its all about.

I can totally understand your need to write your letter Nikon, and I will not lie I have seen these comments posted about you on various forums around the net. And the funny thing to me, is (without pointing the finger and naming names), some of the people who have posted these comments are members of oc, and rather than take issue here, they go on another forum and vent, etc....

I think the rules that you have set here are perfect the way that they are, and ARE NOT too strict at all. And they should be left the way that they are.

I think that for those people who think the rules are too strict, or are unhappy here should move on - because lets be honest here, there are other Dreamcast sites, and communities, etc, and maybe they will be more happy there.
  _________________
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Xlink ID: JJC5150
PSN ID : JJC5150
Jabber ID: JJC5150@jabber.org
Kbuzz
rank 23
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:20 pm
quote : #21
profile : pm
Posts: 473
Type: NTSC-U/C
There have been accusations that other sites cannot be linked in here. This just isn't true as you can see.

http://www.dreamcast-talk.com
http://www.dreamcast-scene.com
http://the-dreamcast-junkyard.blogspot.com/
  _________________
Pso: Kingbuzzo lvl 80
QUake 3: [OC] Kingbuzzo
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:29 pm
quote : #22
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
grubensau wrote:
...OC is an one man show - so its simple normal that haters call your name first in combination with OC.

You make a really good point here grub. The fact that I am the primary person handling moderation tasks creates a focal point, and an easy target for other people to direct their negative comments. If we had a moderation team, then I bet none of this would even be happening. Though there really hasn't ever been a need for other moderators on the site, because OC is a pretty clean board. Any 1 user only has to receive a few forum notices to understand how the site works, and then they generally know how to post here in the future.

jjc5150 wrote:
In the last few years that I have been a member of this community, I can honestly say that it has been a great experience. I have met people from all over the world who all have the same interests as myself, and for the most part are here because they love this game system and this site. And first and foremost thats whats its all about.


Thanks man Smile Yea I just really felt the need to write the letter, because other people could be missing out on these same great experiences due to reading misinformation. I sat back idly just letting people say negative things about me, because I don't like drama, and didn't want to interject myself into such childish bickering. However, I realised lately with the huge news coming to Dreamcast Online in the coming year, I just had to step up and address this. To clear the slate, and get things back to how they were when this site first started.

kingbuzzo wrote:
There have been accusations that other sites cannot be linked in here. This just isn't true as you can see.


Hmm who was saying that? That is so wierd. There is nothing preventing anyone from posting a URL here on the site. The only thing that impacts the display of URL's is a wrapping script, which will add a space in the display text so super long URL' wrap without stretching out the design. You can see this in blogspot in the third URL there. Though OC had a smaller site dimension in the past, so maybe I should increase the character count for where that spacer shows up.

Last edited by lordnikon on Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
K_I_R_E_E_K
unknown
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:53 pm
quote : #23
profile : pm
Posts: 229
Type: PAL
After trying to help a user at another website, i was excluded from the pso access, while this is your decision and the fact i never insulted you after the incident i still didn't liked it.
My goal was to help users, here or anywhere, i did that and got my payment here, this is why i rarely come here, i stoped having any contact with OC.
I realized i couln't help the users here any longer
That and the fact that only the players here can upload pso screenshots, since i was excluded then i could no longer upload them

Like i said, your decision, since i didn't like it, i left.
This made me free, i could do more things without worring of getting punished here.

I also noticed a very naive comment.

Quote:
That is all. So far, this has succeeded and for those who have access we have had some really pure PSO experiences without any of the anxiety experienced on official servers. We can idle in lobby 1 without fear of FSOD, don't have to "hide" in passworded games, and can openly exchange items knowing they are not hacked.


beware, you only discourage ppl entering for the sake of hacking (who will wait 6 months to fsod someone?), but remember that when you aplied this rule, several members already met the requirements, i was one of them.
I believe the gameplay is legit, but never assume that is actually 100% legit, obviously rule violators will be reported by other users, but making hacked items that will pass off as legit is not so hard and will succeed even more when players are not very experienced.
By "experienced" i mean a player that has played long enough and read many faqs to know what are.......for example the item % parameters in ultimate and in quests
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:37 pm
quote : #24
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
Hi K_I_R_E_E_K Smile The PSO area only has a few simple rules. One of them was to not leak any information outside of the OC PSO community. Especially if it had anything to do with OC's servers, or how users were connecting, since it would jeapardize our playing environment.

You posted a direct link to our code breaker script on another message board. This script was designed to create server connection files to OC's servers. These files were actually cached on the web server. There is a risk that someone could have poked around enough at the script to locate the cached files, or break the script. It was highly unlikely, but still possible.

You posted a link to the actual script we use to connect to servers at the time, to a board where other PSO hackers and cheaters congregate. I had no choice, because who knows what other information you were leaking (even if unintentionally).

I know you were trying to help other users at another board, but you made a grave mistake, and the action taken to remove you from the our PSO area was fully justified. It was unfortunate, because our servers are setup entirely different now, and this situation may have never happened under these new conditions.

Also, yes you are absolutley correct. Someone could infiltrate the OC PSO community, and then spread dupes to other users. It is a possibility. which is the whole reason for the access requirements in the first place. If a cheater is found to be spreading dupes, he would be dropped from the PSO area. The only way he could get back in is to create a new account and wait another 6 months. This is the only method I could think of to allow true legits to gain access while seriously discouraging cheaters from trolling the community.

I simply used the term 100% because using anything else would imply we are not legit. If I stated "OC is the first 99.9% legit community", it implies we have a cheater in our midst or that we sort of support it in some way. I probobly need to tweak the wording on the PSO Access page to say it is our 'goal' to run a 100% legit community.

---

EDIT: Like I have said in the letter it is my eventual goal to one day open things up more for OC PSO. A driving motivation for this is because Yuji Naka's primary visions for PSO was for it to be a cross cultural online experience where users across the world could be united and play together. After seeing the sequels to PSO have their server environments region locked, with Sega citing "western players and japanese players are just too different to play together", this really got me thinking. I think there is a lot of merit in Yuji Naka's original vision. So I would like to restore that one day, but while maintaining a playing environment that is also as legit as possible.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
K_I_R_E_E_K
unknown
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:54 pm
quote : #25
profile : pm
Posts: 229
Type: PAL
I know what i did, and i felt like trash after comming here knowing i had been banned from the pso area.

That's why i left, i can now post and link to thinks without fear, i give my support elsewhere, to ppl i can trust, knowing they won't make these kind of comments
Quote:
because who knows what other information you were leaking

seriously....

yo dude, you helped that guy, that's good, but....i have been checking, there is a small chance that someone would use that for the sake of spreading hacks on our server if they discover the ip........so.....you're banned, bai
yeah i felt like trash

---------------
Quote:
Someone could infiltrate the OC PSO community, and then spread dupes to other users

no, no one will infiltrate just for that, what i meant is that from the beguining, ppl already had acess, those are the ones that can spread hacks, not the ones that aren't here.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:25 pm
quote : #26
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
K_I_R_E_E_K, how am I out of line for thinking you could have leaked other information? You posted our connection script on a board that allows cheating.

The rule said don't leak information, you leaked information, so it raises the question if you leaked more than just the script link. Even if you did it unintentionally, it still means that more info could have been leaked unintentionally. I have no way of knowing.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
mcmonkey
rank 44
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:23 pm
quote : #27
profile : pm
Posts: 1314
Type: PAL
Only just noticed the letter/this discussion today.

I think most of the animosity towards this place really comes from rules actually being properly enforced on here. All this censorship nonsense is just silly. If people can't be bothered to post within the site rules, then they shouldn't be surprised when they get their wrists slapped/whatever.

I think the parameters for getting in to the PSO section are bit impractical. It's a difficult thing to get right, though.

As for the no leaking of PSO info stuff. I have to admit I thought it was just server codes and other things like that when I read the rule. I didn't realise that it included the code generator. I'm not saying that I have given the code gen out to other people (can't be bothered going elsewhere for my PSO), but it's an easy mistake to make. It's not information, it's a tool. Sharing said tool, I thought, would have be exceptable. I thought it was public since Nikon is very pro software being available to everyone. I didn't know that it would be possible to get a server code/IP that had previously been entered into it by other users from it. Not everyone is knowledgeable about how websites work. It isn't really fair that someone got banned for misinterpreting a pretty vague rule.

Anyway, I like this place. Smile

Keep up the good work!
 
MasquedWarrior
rank 9
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:49 pm
quote : #28
profile : pm
Posts: 122
Type: NTSC-U/C
The letter states, "Only 44 people have ever been banned from OC across the entire site (not just the DC site, but all 3 sites). Of the 3,400 registered users across the site, this comprises only 1.3% of the entire community. This means 98.7% of the member accounts are still intact and working since the day they were created."
Later, it says,
"The last person I had to actually ban was 9 over months ago."

Do you consider a deactivated account to be "still intact and working?" I have heard that you have rendered some accounts inactive, causing their users to be unable to login, but making it so that "banned," does not show up below their username in posts they had made. I also heard that one such account was actually deactivated less than six months ago. Are these claims true?
  _________________
Gamespy ID (for Evo 4x4)- MasquedWarrior
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lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:31 pm
quote : #29
profile : pm
Posts: 5898
Type: NTSC-U/C
Sometimes I have to deactivate an account when I feel a user is going to cause problems on the website. Getting the account reactivated means they have to get in touch with me after I send them an email explaining the situation to them. Othertimes they find a way to contact me first. Either way, the act of deactivating an account is indeed sometimes used as a moderation technique.

Also, some user accounts can just get randomly deactivated when they try and make changes to their profiles. Some changes require you to re-enter your password when trying to change your email address. There is a bug in the system that can sometimes deactivate a users account. Anyone should contact me if they see there account has been deactivated so that situations like this can get resolved and their accounts restored to working order.

Last edited by lordnikon on Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
TheMytho
rank 28
Posted:
Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:00 am
quote : #30
profile : pm
Posts: 587
Type: NTSC-U/C
mcmonkey wrote:
As for the no leaking of PSO info stuff. I have to admit I thought it was just server codes and other things like that when I read the rule. I didn't realise that it included the code generator. I'm not saying that I have given the code gen out to other people (can't be bothered going elsewhere for my PSO), but it's an easy mistake to make. It's not information, it's a tool. Sharing said tool, I thought, would have be exceptable. I thought it was public since Nikon is very pro software being available to everyone. I didn't know that it would be possible to get a server code/IP that had previously been entered into it by other users from it. Not everyone is knowledgeable about how websites work. It isn't really fair that someone got banned for misinterpreting a pretty vague rule.


I'm not trying to kiss ass here or anything, but the rule seems very clear to me: Do not leak ANYTHING out of the PSO forum. ANYTHING. Even a code generation tool.

Even if a user is unfamiliar with web technologies, that should be clear enough to understand. If the user has to ponder whether or not some aspect of the PSO community at OC should be shared, chances are it shouldn't.
 
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