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amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:08 pm
quote : #16
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Posts: 124
Please forgive the double post, but there are loads of updates,

kimimi posted...

Outtrigger needs to be moved to the DC/arcade section - http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=721&gid=2127#2127

It actually is already there, so it needs to be taken off of the first list.

I would personally put Mortal Kombat there too (assuming you're talking about MK Gold), it only has a few extra characters and other bits over MK4, it's not a different game.

I will move it to the Arcade list.

Is there any difference between Virtua Athletes 2000 and arcade Virtua Athlete? - http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=723&gid=2478#2478 - I've got the PS2 Sega Ages pack with it on and I don't believe they made any distinction between them, but I'd have to check.

Since it was released for the PS2, it should be off all of the lists

Puyo Puyo DA! also came out in the arcades - http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=721&gid=2129#2129

I will move it to the Arcade list

As did Bass Fishing 2 - http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=723&gid=2174#2174

This one as well.

Prince of Persia: Arabian Nights is just Prince of Persia 3D (PC) with a few tweaks - http://hardcoregaming101.net/princeofpersia/princeofpersia2.htm

I will move it to the PC list.

There appear to be no notable differences between Typing of the Dead (PC/DC) and Typing of the Dead: Zombie Panic (PS2) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Typing_of_the_Dead

I will take it off the list.

Jimmy White's Cueball 2 also came out on the PS1 - http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/578871-jimmy-whites-2-cueball



This one will be gone next update.

Thank you Kimimi, you have been a HUGE help!

World Series Baseball 2K1 was made by WOW and released in the Arcades(I'll move it there)

WSB 2K2 was made by Visual Concepts, and can be kept right where it is.
 
fattony
rank 11
Posted:
Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:47 pm
quote : #17
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Soilder of fortune had a PS2 port but it had differnt content so maybe it does belong on PC DC exclusives
 
amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:26 pm
quote : #18
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Holy Disappearing Game! When I went to move Alien Front On-Line to the Arcade list it became MIA. I'll add it next. This, and a couple of other Arcade titles had a VMU slot built into the cabinet, does that mean they were DC to Arcade ports? Wink
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:23 am
quote : #19
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The NAOMI supported the feature of allowing you to connect a VMU for data transfer to the arcade unit, and many Capcom games took advantage of it. There were no games that started out as Dreamcast games and made there way to the arcades. Though many DC/NAOMI games were originally developed to be released on both platforms, even though the game hit the arcades first.
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amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:41 pm
quote : #20
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Posts: 124
lordnikon wrote:
The NAOMI supported the feature of allowing you to connect a VMU for data transfer to the arcade unit, and many Capcom games took advantage of it. There were no games that started out as Dreamcast games and made there way to the arcades. Though many DC/NAOMI games were originally developed to be released on both platforms, even though the game hit the arcades first.


Yes, Sega would have developed the game for their NAOMI Arcade system, and then ported it to Dreamcast. Still a cool feature to be able to unlock levels on the Arcade cabinet, and take them home.

Strange that AFO was only an NA release, so the cabinets would have been for that market only. at a time it was slowly dying there.

http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=1539&image=1

Yet, the Power Stone 2 Arcade version was released the same month the Japanese DC version came out.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/198333-power-stone-2/data

I guess the only true Dreamcast to Arcade games, were the Atomiswave ones that Sega(Sammy) in their infinite wisdom, never released to the home market

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=812

Truly sad when you consider that they were still producing the GD-ROMS, and releasing other "Official" games for the DC, at the time.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:16 pm
quote : #21
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amcdc79 wrote:
I guess the only true Dreamcast to Arcade games, were the Atomiswave ones that Sega(Sammy) in their infinite wisdom, never released to the home market

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=812

None of these games were released on the Dreamcast. I think you are miss-reading the terminology used at system16 that says "Dreamcast Like Spec". They mean NAOMI. The Atomiswave was an extension of the NAOMI Architecture.
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amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:33 pm
quote : #22
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Posts: 124
lordnikon wrote:
amcdc79 wrote:
I guess the only true Dreamcast to Arcade games, were the Atomiswave ones that Sega(Sammy) in their infinite wisdom, never released to the home market

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=812

None of these games were released on the Dreamcast. I think you are miss-reading the terminology used at system16 that says "Dreamcast Like Spec". They mean NAOMI. The Atomiswave was an extension of the NAOMI Architecture.


Yes, none of the games were released for the Dreamcast, mind you, Metal Slug 6 did get a home release on another console in Japan.

Please explain what part of this sentence am I miss-reading,

"This is a standard dreamcast type spec, so has less power than the Sega Naomi."

When we compare the Atomiswave specs with the Dreamcast specs, we see that they are pretty much the same, and both are less powerful than Naomi. The only real difference, was in the storage of the game. DC used a disc, whereas Atomiswave used a ROM hard drive. Games made for Atomiswave were basically Dreamcast games, so it would have been very easy to port to the DC. Sega was still capable of producing GD-ROMS, they were even releasing NAOMI1 games(Puyo Puyo Fever-2004). Sega supplied the discs to developers until 2007, and iirc, stopped making them around 2009.

Kao The Kangaroo can be added to the DC-PC list
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:24 am
quote : #23
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I think if you went over to any ethusiast board that is very arcade focused like shmups.com or neo-geo.com, and you said "That Dreamcast game Dolphin Blue that never made it to the home market." People would be scratching their heads. I think it is established that the Atomiswave's architecture is similar to the DC/Naomi, but everyone considers the platform and its games to be Atomiswave Arcade in origin.

A line should be drawn between what is considered arcade hardware, and what is considered console hardware.

From the perspective of specs, any number of stances can be made. Someone could say, "The Dreamcast, NAOMI, and Atomiswave specs are all similar, so Grandia II was really an arcade game." One could also say, "The entire Dreamcast home console library are really arcade games". If of course one considers the NAOMI to be base for the Dreamcast rather than the other way around. This can go in so many different directions if you are justifying your stance based purely on specs.

If the DC/NAOMI/Atomis are all a part of the same family, the DC/NAOMI would be brother and sister, where as the Atomis would be distant a cousin. The DC/NAOMI platforms reigned during the same time period. Their logos are also similar. The spirit of these 2 platforms are interlinked, and there is more going on here than just hardware specs. The majority of the games developed on each platform came during a time when developers were urged to innovate and Sega's first party talent were at their prime.

The Atomiswave, despite having specs similar to the NAOMI/Dreamcast, came at a later time. It was a Sammy innitiative. It came during a time when SNK was looking for a platform to develop games on after having retired the MVS.

I consider the platforms to be distinguished in the following way:

Dreamcast (Console Hardware)
NAOMI (Arcade Hardware)
Atomiswave (Arcade Hardware)

The games released for these platforms I distinguish in similar fashion. I consider Atomiswave games to be Arcade games for the Atomiswave platform, not Dreamcast games.
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amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:00 pm
quote : #24
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Posts: 124
Of course you're right, the Home console and Arcade markets are distinct, with the Neo-Geo being the only one to sort of blur the line between them. The Dreamcast was a compromise that Sega had to make in order to hit a price point for the Home console market. The Arcade market allowed Sega to make huge investments in the cabinet, and the system itself could be fairly expensive to make, as long as the games were cutting edge. The PC market is also distinct, with it's advantage of being able to upgrade itself almost every year

I totally agree that Sega during the NAOMI/Dreamcast era were at their pinnacle in so many ways(over 150 1st party games for a home console is unheard of), by the time the Atomiswave came, they were but a shadow of themselves. Most of the games on the system were Sammy or SNK games, with a couple of Sega ones thrown in for good measure.

My version of the family, would have NAOMI as the rich Aunt or Uncle, throwing tidbits at it's favored nephew. The atomiswave would be a very late arriving Non-identical twin, pressed into service by two companies needing a cheap format to release games on, in a declining market. I understand that a few of the games did get released into the Japanese home market on another console.

When I looked at the specs for the Atomiswave and DC, I assumed that since they were equal, they were one and the same. You know what happens when you assume. As you say, there is a lot more to the distinct markets than simple specs. I guess I am miss-reading, when I think that anyone would take a discontinued home console, and turn it into an Arcade system. Perhaps I was foolishly thinking from my heart, and not seeing the big picture.

Even though the Dreamcast was my first Sega console, looking back at all the others, you can see an Arcade heritage in each one(no I'm not calling them Arcade hardware). One of the advantages of the DC, was that it was "like" having many Arcade consoles available to play at home.
 
lordnikon
rank 86
Posted:
Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:14 pm
quote : #25
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amcdc79 wrote:
I guess I am miss-reading, when I think that anyone would take a discontinued home console, and turn it into an Arcade system. Perhaps I was foolishly thinking from my heart, and not seeing the big picture.

The big picture is that the NAOMI is the parent of the Dreamcast and the Atomiswave, and the Atomiswave is more of an offshoot of the NAOMI than it is the Dreamcast. Sammy basically came up with a lower spec'd NAOMI design which ended up more closely resembling the DC. Since the DC is basically the NAOMI but with less RAM.

Also, as an aside, the NAOMI is the big reason why the Blackbelt PC spec'd console never stood a chance against the Dreamcast/NAOMI design. Sega was very focused on maintaining a firm grip on the arcade market. Sega was still very much an arcade company back then. So this is why I often place the NAOMI as the parent system because Sega had to develop a platform that was going to allow them to cover both arcades and the home market. Western companies like 3DFx were delusional thinking they ever stood a chance to woo Sega of Japan over to their hardware.

amcdc79 wrote:
Even though the Dreamcast was my first Sega console, looking back at all the others, you can see an Arcade heritage in each one(no I'm not calling them Arcade hardware). One of the advantages of the DC, was that it was "like" having many Arcade consoles available to play at home.

All of Sega's platforms are full of arcade games (head over to the Classics board to talk to me for hours on end about the Saturn Import library... oh man). In terms of 3D consoles, the Dreamcast is unrivaled in its library of 3D based arcade games.

I think this thread pinpoints what makes the Sega Dreamcast so great. It was such a versital system. It managed to give us huge libraries of Arcade games, Exclusives, and ports from the golden age of PC gaming.

P.S. - I hate to say it but, I already had all of the research from this thread done years ago, pinpointing the platform origins of every game ever released on the Dreamcast. I just haven't had the time to dig out the info and cross reference it against what has been posted in this thread. Embarassed
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amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:16 pm
quote : #26
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Posts: 124
The only reason I started this thread, was hearing folks crying the blues, that all of the DC games had gone on to other platforms. But those of us fortunate enough to have played the majority of the DC exclusive games, I'm sure will agree, that over 100 of the 130+ games are good to great(over 7/10 rating). I personally, only see just over 20 games to avoid.

There are games on the lists, that have equal people hate it as love it, there are even folks who like The Ring, (to each his/her own).

The beauty of the Dreamcast, is that game wise, it's library is pretty strong top to bottom. It's main downfall is, that it did not last long, so not enough games, and way too many good ones stayed in Japan. It would be interesting to know, how many Japanese Dreamcast games are still exclusive. Would your research fill in the blanks as far as that is concerned?
 
amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:13 pm
quote : #27
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Posts: 124
Regarding the lists, I'm going to start at the top, and rate 5 games at a time. I won't rate it If I haven't played it, and I may get it wrong, please no flaming. but I do want to hear from all those who have played them.

1- TimeStalkers-8.6/10
A love it or hate it game that does have a couple of issues, many folks did not like the idea of going back to level 1 after leaving the dungeons(I didn't mind at all). The yogurt Ring was cool, as was capturing your enemies and leveling them up, by fighting with you. Having your attacks hit dead air due to the enemy moving was so old school. The limited inventory and fast hunger meter, made every excursion into the dungeons a challenge throughout the game. I liked the graphics, enjoyed the music, found the story to be "meh" and thankfully did not encounter the skills glitch. One of my favourite DC game.

2-Speed Devils On-line-8.4/10
I enjoyed the changing conditions of the track, the betting, the shortcuts, AI was good, and the handling was bang on. I only wish I could have played on-line, I heard it was great!

3-Red Dog-8.8/10
Graphics are great, very tough single player, controls had a steep learning curve, multi-player was awesome. Obscure? Yes, but reeked with quality.

4-Toy Commander-9.3/10
What a Game! Multi-player was a blast, single player was tough due to the controls very steep learning curve. Was happy to use the level select code as some of the later missions were quite hard. It has everything, flying, racing(up the wall and on the ceiling, tanks with guns blowing everything up, and lots of strategy. Another one in my top 10.

5-D2-9.1/10
Great music and graphics, with an unique control scheme that once mastered becomes second nature. The random battles can get repetitive, but the bosses were very cool and scary, even without the blood. The hunting was fun, but the snowmobile controlled like crap. I loved it right to the end, sad it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

I decided to only do the first 5 to start, and as you can tell they are some of my personal favourites. Please try to be gentle if you don't agree, but feel free to chime in.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------

The next 5-this time I'll give a score and minimal review, so if you've play the game, please tell us what you think.

6-Sonic Shuffle-7.9/10- mixed reviews

7-Blue Stinger-7.5/10-love or hate

8-Snow Surfers/Rippin' Riders-6.8/10-wonky trick controls

9-Illbleed-8.4/10-underrated

10-MSR-9.8/10-brilliant

If you have played any of these games, please tell us about your experience.
 
amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:22 pm
quote : #28
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Posts: 124
There has been a few updates, and I've added a few more categories.

Your thoughts?
 
geoffro
rank 1
Posted:
Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:01 am
quote : #29
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Any chance of continuing your reviews?
 
amcdc79
rank 9
Posted:
Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:20 pm
quote : #30
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Posts: 124
Did you want me to embellish #6-10, or start at 11?
 
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