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segadreamcaster
rank 37
Posted:
Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:49 pm
quote : #1
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Posts: 811
Type: NTSC-U/C
Been pretty suprised at how dead Quake 3 arena has been since I have started hosting servers, I suppose the last time I played Quake regularly was about a year ago and at that time there always seemed to be at least 2 or 3 players about. Now however, the servers are looking almost as dead as Starlancer much of the time Sad

Been hosting my servers for a week now and so far I have not had a single game played on them, except for a couple where I have spotted people and gone on to play...but no random games at all Sad perhaps these games are happening on other servers instead, but it seems not because whenever I go on there is nobody about.

I think this is quite sad...I did think that Quake 3 would be the one game that would keep thriving on the DC...but perhaps not...oh well just thought I would mention it...anybody else noticed a decline in players?
  _________________
Game Names:

PSO = Ryo or SEGADCER
Q3A, Starlancer
Max Pool = Segadcer
4x4 Evo = Segadreamcaster

Visit the NEW Saturn netlink league www.saturnleague.com
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:22 pm
quote : #2
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Posts: 5902
Type: NTSC-U/C
Well there is a tournament going on some people are playing some games. Wink mcmonkey is doing a great job with the tournament so far, and it just goes to show you how hard it is to actually run one successfully and get everyone to show up and play. Though it is getting some people online, and people are indeed playing.

Its not as if Q3 having slow player traffic is an unusual occurance. This happens with every online game I have ever played on any platform. Keeping people playing a game online is sort of like pumping up a tire with a hole in it. You have to keep on pumping away to keep the tire filled, and if you cease, then all of the air eventually escapes.

I think as time goes on things will gradually improve a bit. The key is bringing in more serious diehard players, and giving people tips on what it takes to stay active. The amount of regular serious online players on the DC is small, and so far this hasn't changed since the site started in 2003. Most of the players that are still playing the DC online are the same small band of people. Most everyone else came and went.

As always I have things I am working on to try and change this, so more people are playing. I won't get into it all right now but there are all types of things that can be done.

There is one pretty obvious thing: Don't put away your controllers, and keep your system hooked up. If your system is not readily accessable to play online, odds are after a hard days work you are not going to pull everything out to hop on for some quick frags. However, if you are "1 power button press" away from playing, you will get online more frequently. This is just one point I plan to start driving home to all players involved with online console gaming so that people stay active.
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
freaky
rank 7
Posted:
Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:40 pm
quote : #3
profile : pm
Posts: 74
I think the key problem is not just a lack of players, but a lack of server variety.
For example, you might have 10 vanilla servers running, and two servers running a modification of some type where, from a players point of view he or she would make one of two choices.

"A" to choose a server that holds the lowest ping for them, or "B", to choose a server thats running something different than what the other 10 servers are running.

I find there seems to be more active players in the uk at the moment, so option "A" is really just pure luck depending on were your server is hosted from.

As for choice "B", as a player i would not really bother disconnecting from a vanilla server, just to join another vanilla server unless it had something better to offer me.

My advice would be to try and experiment with your server and create something unique that would appeal to other players.
You dont have to go crazy with it, just offer something that the other servers dont, like maybe some ctf or freezetag.
(i find players tend to favour team based games more than free for all at the moment)

Also, joining in on friday night games would be a good way of meeting players and getting them over to your server for some matches.

Personally, i feel the whole scene needs a complete overhaul to keep players interested, the clan matches are good and we need more stuff like this to keep the quake scene active.
  _________________
http://nemesis.tilion.org.uk/
Blast
rank 43
Posted:
Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:04 pm
quote : #4
profile : pm
Posts: 1285
Type: Pal
freaky wrote:
I think the key problem is not just a lack of players, but a lack of server variety.
For example, you might have 10 vanilla servers running, and two servers running a modification of some type where, from a players point of view he or she would make one of two choices.

"A" to choose a server that holds the lowest ping for them, or "B", to choose a server thats running something different than what the other 10 servers are running.

I find there seems to be more active players in the uk at the moment, so option "A" is really just pure luck depending on were your server is hosted from.

As for choice "B", as a player i would not really bother disconnecting from a vanilla server, just to join another vanilla server unless it had something better to offer me.

My advice would be to try and experiment with your server and create something unique that would appeal to other players.
You dont have to go crazy with it, just offer something that the other servers dont, like maybe some ctf or freezetag.
(i find players tend to favour team based games more than free for all at the moment)

Also, joining in on friday night games would be a good way of meeting players and getting them over to your server for some matches.

Personally, i feel the whole scene needs a complete overhaul to keep players interested, the clan matches are good and we need more stuff like this to keep the quake scene active.


I disagree with most of that in all honesty. I found on the last few occasions I connected for random games that the vannila servers were empty and the few players that were on always played in the modded servers i.e. Zappy Sad I had no interest in playing in these servers and therefore after waiting for 15 mins or half an hour in a vannila server running about looking at the walls I would Disconnect. The players in the modded serers never left and most of the time it was the same players. So if you do add a mod that attracts you could just end up with the same old people and no one new joining.

Laters
  _________________
Now have a working PC DC server courtesy of Segadreamcaster. Bring on the DC on line games yeeee haaa.
freaky
rank 7
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:07 am
quote : #5
profile : pm
Posts: 74
Quote:

I found on the last few occasions I connected for random games that the vannila servers were empty and the few players that were on always played in the modded servers i.e. Zappy I had no interest in playing in these servers and therefore after waiting for 15 mins or half an hour in a vannila server running about looking at the walls I would Disconnect.

Does that not just proves my point then?
I agree with you on the zappy point, i cant stand playing there, but at the same time why is it then whenever somebody mentions the word "modification" the first thing everybody thinks is "ohh, a server that has homing rockets or teleporting rails Confused "

There are alot of pro modifications out there that can be used to better the gameplay rather than the simply using the zappy mod.
He could try running a freezetag server, or a last man standing server without being too excessive and at the same time still remain faithfull to the vanilla style of gameplay.
  _________________
http://nemesis.tilion.org.uk/
Blast
rank 43
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:40 am
quote : #6
profile : pm
Posts: 1285
Type: Pal
freaky wrote:
Quote:

I found on the last few occasions I connected for random games that the vannila servers were empty and the few players that were on always played in the modded servers i.e. Zappy I had no interest in playing in these servers and therefore after waiting for 15 mins or half an hour in a vannila server running about looking at the walls I would Disconnect.

Does that not just proves my point then?
I agree with you on the zappy point, i cant stand playing there, but at the same time why is it then whenever somebody mentions the word "modification" the first thing everybody thinks is "ohh, a server that has homing rockets or teleporting rails Confused "

There are alot of pro modifications out there that can be used to better the gameplay rather than the simply using the zappy mod.
He could try running a freezetag server, or a last man standing server without being too excessive and at the same time still remain faithfull to the vanilla style of gameplay.


Think Q3 is good enough stand alone the game play doesnt need that much tweeking. As its been a year since I have played a plain vanilla server would keep me interested for quite some period of time, in fact I have never needed anything else.

Laters
  _________________
Now have a working PC DC server courtesy of Segadreamcaster. Bring on the DC on line games yeeee haaa.
segadreamcaster
rank 37
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:25 am
quote : #7
profile : pm
Posts: 811
Type: NTSC-U/C
Some interesting comments on this Smile

I am happy to do whatever is deemed best with my servers, but to be honest it does seem a bit un-clear what the majority of people would like to see in servers? Currently all 4 servers are totally vanilla with no mods at all, I am running for a present to provide one of each type: Free for all, capture the flag, Team Death match & tournament.

I would be happy to add mods if that is the best way to keep people interested and hopefully attract new players as well..however I am not sure if mods will help with this or not? Plus the fact I am completely new to this and have no idea what mods are about and how to implement them...anybody got a link to a good guide for Quake 3 servers? Smile

On a more general DC online note, there seem to be a lot of users of this site who are visiting regularly and not actually playing anything online, or at least thats how it seems? how many of you are perhaps reading this now and thinking.."yeah thats me?" Just curious as there still seems to be a fair number of active forum members but maybe not quite so active Dreamcast online members?

I know a lot of people probably end up playing a particular game more regularly than other, like blast and I are nearly always playing maximum pool...how many of you do this and what game do you do it with?

Anyway, thats all...let me know what you think about what I should do with my Quake servers, wanna get some opinions Smile
  _________________
Game Names:

PSO = Ryo or SEGADCER
Q3A, Starlancer
Max Pool = Segadcer
4x4 Evo = Segadreamcaster

Visit the NEW Saturn netlink league www.saturnleague.com
freaky
rank 7
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:19 am
quote : #8
profile : pm
Posts: 74
Ok, well if your going to look at mods, then first of all you should forget the zappy type ones as there options are very limited.

i can recommend three good mods that are worth looking into.

1: Noghost mod
www.noghost.net
gives you lots of options including built in anti cheat protection.

2: Carnage mod
3: Nemesis mod
www.q3nemesis.com
Carnage, agian like noghost gives you lots of options, including 16 new gametypes to play with.
Nemesis is more for serious tournament servers, much like osp but has some really neat options like name / tag banning etc.

I run Carnage and i would say 90% of the players that connect dont even realise there playing a mod, the changes i made with it are just enough to make the player think "theres something different about this server, but im not too sure what it is yet"

For example my server is basiclly a mod running in vanilla mode, but i decided to randomise powerups and how fast weapons respawn, each time a new map is loaded there given random values.

So you might play dc_map 19 with quad damage, then the next time dc_map19 is loaded it might have regeneration instead of quad damage and so on.....
That way it just keeps it a little bit more interesting each time you play Smile
  _________________
http://nemesis.tilion.org.uk/
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 am
quote : #9
profile : pm
Posts: 5902
Type: NTSC-U/C
freaky wrote:
For example my server is basiclly a mod running in vanilla mode, but i decided to randomise powerups and how fast weapons respawn, each time a new map is loaded there given random values.

So you might play dc_map 19 with quad damage, then the next time dc_map19 is loaded it might have regeneration instead of quad damage and so on.....
That way it just keeps it a little bit more interesting each time you play Smile

That is awesome. That means pros can't run their loop on the map. Very interesting :]
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
freaky
rank 7
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:17 pm
quote : #10
profile : pm
Posts: 74
Yeah, its funny watching where the pro players run to look for an item, just to see how confused they get when the item their looking for has vanished.

They tend to panic and loose focus on what there next objective should be Laughing

I also discovered that you can climb up walls by using the plasma gun, we spent most of yesterday running around the server climbing up walls for a laugh.
Im now on a mission to teach everyone i meet on the server how to plasmajump up walls Cool
  _________________
http://nemesis.tilion.org.uk/
Cyberdemonbfg
rank 7
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:32 pm
quote : #11
profile : pm
Posts: 51
Other reasons it's slacking is because alot of people are tired of having to play against pc's especially the ones using aimbot,the dc people don't stand a chance even a poor player using this.I play zappy and n/a servers because it does, even at least a little,the odds against them.Of course,the speed does enter in as the server location.Example in n/a i'm 67.In a Brazilian server i'm over 250 and i sure can tell the difference from moving like a slug to flying around the level.In a case of a mod,say rails only,speed is most important because of the reload time of the gun.It's a shame that no one has setup the first and original mod "Q-frag" which hardly anyone knows or remembers.It is based on the speed of the weapon you possess.Example with a rocket launcher you move like a slug on the other extreme with the gauntlet you fly around giving people humiliations,if your good enough.I play on Friday and Saturday nights.This past weekend i was bouncing back and forth between the dc and another system that isn't supported here.But that other system is more balanced since everyone is playing the same thing and thats what it comes down to is balance.
  _________________
Hello i'm the old man(71 Years young).I enjoy playing and meeting my friends on Quake III Arena.I appreciate this website and thanks for letting me be a part of it(Doom71*ROX*).
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:31 pm
quote : #12
profile : pm
Posts: 5902
Type: NTSC-U/C
I agree. The issue of cross platform play is a factor in how frequently people are online. The average Dreamcast user will go online and may or may not know that the player in the server is a Dreamcast user, or a PC user. For people looking to play with fellow Dreamcast enthusiasts, this is a problem. This situation is just as jarring as having to avoid cheaters in PSO. Its tough because just like in PSO, people lie. I have had some people say they are on the Dreamcast, but they are clearly on their PC. not many have done this but one or two have. I don't like having to screen people and always ask them if they are PC or DC. Unfortunatly people latch onto the PC version because its easier to get online with it. They care all about the interaction with the people, and nothing about the hardware they are playing from.

Plus you have people on so many hardware configurations:

Dreamcast dialup pad
Dreamcast broadband pad
Dreamcast dialup ms+kb
Dreamcast broadband ms+kb
PC Broadband
PC dialup (rare but possible)

Also there are other anomolies such as people on Free ISP's, and people on PC-DC servers.

I have had a couple of really good ideas for a while now to help this situation. I think I will write up some more documentation and start an innitiative to move forward with these ideas. I don't think the Balance issue can be fully solved, but I do think that through organization it could be helped considerably.

(P.S. - For future posters to this thread: Lets not get into any debates here about the Dreamcast vs PC advantage issue. We have already gone over this a million times in previous threads. If you want to comment on this, look one of them up.)
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
Blast
rank 43
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:23 pm
quote : #13
profile : pm
Posts: 1285
Type: Pal
There was once a way to test if another player was PC or not. I got asked to do this on several occasions it involved me looking at a word and saying which letters were flashing, evidently PC players wont be able to see the flashing letters. No idea how it worked though.

Laters
  _________________
Now have a working PC DC server courtesy of Segadreamcaster. Bring on the DC on line games yeeee haaa.
mrandyk
rank 19
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:01 pm
quote : #14
profile : pm
Posts: 368
id have to say there are many factors as to why quake 3 on the dreamcast is losing popularity. a lot of people are just too lazy to get connected, like me a lot of the time. the servers are usually filled with bots which are no fun to go up against. 4 player limits might turn away some people, but if you are on dial up 4 is plenty. the pc version is still online and has many players, and more capacity. people looking for good games of ctf are usually out of luck, and have to settle on deathmatch games.

but like i said many factors, and sorry about the layout of that message i dont know how to type it up correctly using the right grammer.
  _________________
My online dreamcast games:
Starlancer, 4x4 evo, Max Pool, quake 3(username=mrandyk for all)
I'm always up for a game of starlancer 4x4 evo quake 3 or max pool. just pm me if you wanna play.
lordnikon
rank 87
Posted:
Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:28 pm
quote : #15
profile : pm
Posts: 5902
Type: NTSC-U/C
mrandyk wrote:
a lot of people are just too lazy to get connected, like me a lot of the time. the servers are usually filled with bots which are no fun to go up against.

Admitting you are part of the problem is the first step to recovery Cool

Seriously though. Getting your system hooked up and "available" for online play is KEY.

mrandyk wrote:
grammer.

grammar Wink
  _________________
I'm already numero uno on Dark Helmet's hit list...
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